Collaboration: At the Extremities of Extreme
Jason Ayers share the observations he made watching a team of developers collaborating in real time on the same code base, pushing XP, pair programming and continuous integration to their extremes.
News
The content has been bookmarked!
There was an error bookmarking this content! Please retry.
A Critique of the Pomodoro Technique
Posted by Amr Elssamadisy on Feb 22, 2010
InfoQ has previously reported on the pomodoro technique:
A personal time management approach known as The Pomodoro Technique is becoming quite popular with agile practitioners. Pomodoro includes a number of practices similar to those used by an agile team: time-boxing, frequent opportunities to inspect-and-adapt, estimation, a preference for low-tech tools, and an emphasis on maintaining a sustainable pace.
Over the last couple of years, the Pomodoro Technique has caught the attention of the agile community. Staffan Noteberg's session on the technique was so popular at Agile2008 that it was selected to be re-run at the end of the conference. At Agile2009 Staffan again presented on the technique, as did Renzo Borgatti with a session called: You say tomato, I say Pomodoro.
For those wanting to learn more about the Pomodoro Technique, Francesco has a 45-page book and a one-page cheat sheet available for download from The Pomodoro Technique website.
But is the pomodoro technique really all it's cracked up to be? Are we over-analyzing the issue and creating complexity where none is needed? Mario Fusco shared his critique of the pomodoro technique with us:
Have you ever heard about the Pomodoro technique? If the answer is no you could find a brief explanation about it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pomodoro_Technique
If the answer is yes, please let me ask a simple question about it. Do we really need it? Aren't we really able to keep ourselves concentrated without a timer ticketing on our desk? Actually this is a critique not only to the pomodoro technique, but mostly on the way we are used to work and to think about it..
Let me slightly reframe my thoughts. Have you ever seen a civil engineer using a timer to keep his concentration while working on his projects? Will you trust in a lawyer employing the Pomodoro technique while is trying to defend you? Will you let a surgeon that needs a timer to stay concentrated on his job to operate you? In the end I honestly hope that the pilot of my next intercontinental flight will be able to pay attention to what he is doing for all the 8 or more hours of its duration.
So, why should our work be so different from the former ones? Why do we always think that our work is so special and unique to need a wide set of specific methodologies? Are we professionals or unexperienced kids playing with something bigger then them? I think that, like any other serious professional, I can stay concentrated on what I am doing for hours. I honestly don't need a pomodoro to keep myself focused for just 25 minutes. And if somebody can stay focused for no more than 25 minutes I am afraid that he should really rethink the way he works.
Said that, in my opinion there are also other important drawbacks in the pomodoro technique. What should I reply to my customer who is calling me, possibly from the other side of the ocean? That I am in the middle of my pomodoro and I can't break it? Oh, please. Even worse this technique pones a big limitation on the teamwork. My team is used to leverage on the strenght of the other components. Everyone in the team overcomes the lack of a specific skill or knowledge with a tight collaboration with other team's members. If somebody in my team needs a help or an advice I don't want he has to wait the end of his colleague's pomodoro. I found they are far more effective by collaborating on a minute by minute basis.
So please, bring back your timer to your kitchen and start working in a more professional and effective way.
If Mario's assertions are correct then maybe the pomodoro technique is make work, but are they? Do you:
- Concentrate without interruptions regularly throughout the day?
- Get things done (as in having measurable value) regularly through the day or do you have significant work in progress?
- Is the level of concentration reached in 25 minutes sustainable for hours?
- Are the detrimental effects of not answering the phone or getting up and helping someone more than the positive effects of uninterrupted concentration?
What say you, reader?
- This article is part of a featured topic series on Agile Techniques and also Agile
- See more Agile Techniques content at: http://www.infoq.com/agile_techniques
- See more Agile content at: http://www.infoq.com/agile
- Other recent content items in this topic
RelatedVendorContent
Five Key Practices to Agile ALM
SCM best practices for multiple processes, releases & distributed teams
A Guide to Branching and Merging Patterns
Related Sponsor
Maximize your business-responsiveness with Mingle. Provide your global development team a shared space that adapts to the way they work.
Not sure about the counter examples
by
Werner Schuster
Posted
Good point!
by
Jan Tomka
Posted
Wait a sec...
by
Bruce Rennie
Posted
Re: Wait a sec...
by
Brent Snook
Posted
I can do my job without Pomodoro
by
Jun Ran
Posted
Useful technique
by
Suresh S
Posted
Re: Useful technique
by
federico silva
Posted
who needs methods?
by
Bruno Pedroso
Posted
Re: who needs methods?
by
Mario Fusco
Posted
Re: who needs methods?
by
Bruno Pedroso
Posted
Re: who needs methods?
by
Mario Fusco
Posted
Re: who needs methods?
by
Bruno Pedroso
Posted
Re: who needs methods?
by
Matteo Vaccari
Posted
it is not just focus, it is also about perspective
by
André Dhondt
Posted
Time boxing and managing tasks work well
by
Anirban Bandyopadhyay
Posted
Personal experience
by
Amr Elssamadisy
Posted
I've used pomodoro both as an IT project manager and an attorney
by
Frank Holdsclaw
Posted
my time management technique is called Earphones
by
simone basso
Posted
The reason why Pomodoro technique is used and will be used !!!
by
Anton Antonov
Posted
Re: The reason why Pomodoro technique is used and will be used !!!
by
Chris Matts
Posted
Re: The reason why Pomodoro technique is used and will be used !!!
by
Anton Antonov
Posted
Re: The reason why Pomodoro technique is used and will be used !!!
by
Chris Matts
Posted
Re: The reason why Pomodoro technique is used and will be used !!!
by
Chris Matts
Posted
Professionalism in critiquing
by
Matteo Vaccari
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Mario Fusco
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Dermot Kilroy
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Mario Fusco
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Davide Molin
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Mario Fusco
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Davide Molin
Posted
Re: Professionalism in critiquing
by
Matteo Vaccari
Posted
And on the other hand...
by
kev me
Posted
-
Pilots on intercontinental flights don't maintain intense concentration - mostly because there ain't much to do for most of the time except for starting/landing and when the flight attendant brings in lunch...
Not sure what the lawyer example is about, but I assume that most of a lawyer's day is not like what we see in court room dramas; I assume they'll spend most of the time cooped up in their office researching or typing up docs.
Can't comment on surgeons as my only knowledge of their work comes from old MASH episodes...
Splitting up the day in small work parcels seems fine; sounds like a move back to single tasking - and as we've heard recently, multitasking just means that each parallel task gets less attention and work suffers. Well - I guess it's not single tasking, it's multitasking with 25 minute, non-interruptible time slices, where the slices can be strung together into longer periods (a quick break every half hour can't be called unprofessional...).
I guess the other criticisms can be answered by looking at the type of scheduling required for a job - are we talking about an interactive type of job requiring realtime scheduling or is it something that essentially a batch job. -
If I read Mario's critique correctly, he's not saying that concentration, getting things done, etc are not desirable. He's saying that pomodoro may not be necessary to achieve those things.
Frankly, this is kind of a clique-y, band-waggony community. I can definitely see a lot of people out there pomodoring away like mad when they don't really need it.
Myself, I have two potential arguments against pomodoro:
1. It's local optimization. I thought the goal was to increase team productivity. As Mario mentioned, if I force a team mate to wait, my own personal productivity may be increased but the team's productivity may suffer. Local optimization is supposed to be bad, no?
2. For agile leaders, I thought we were supposed to be the interruption soakers. I'm supposed to throw myself in front of the interruption to protect the team. If the team accomplishes its goals for the day/sprint then I've at least accomplished something. Again, beware the local optimization.
That's not to say that you can't use personal organization tools. I have my own personal kanban. To each her own. -
As Mario Fusco has mentioned in his article, I think I can focus on one thing for hours without a timer.
Most of my tasks can't be done in 25 minutes, only a few of them can be done in half an hour, and it's very time consuming to divide them into pieces, I used to for example writting a document for more than 2 hours to get it done, and then take a rest. -
Advantage of Pomodoro technique comes from the fact that people will be forced to plan in detail. If you have a detailed plan at a 30 min interval, or 1 hr for that matter, the productivity improvement will be amazing. Unlike an open ended task, this gives a sense of emergency to complete the tasks.
Healthy breaks, in between, bring back the focus. But the duration of each Pomodoro might depend on individuals. The interval at which one can stay focussed can vary from one individual to another and the kind of job in hand. Each individual needs to arrive at a suitable time frame depending on their experience. -
I agree on the open ended tasks and on the healthy breaks.
It also helps me quickly learn how much time it takes me to perform some kind of tasks; specially new tasks
and then be able to say with more confidence "it will be ready by XX PM"
About Mario's critique:
1) The pomodoros can be interrupted so you can take your clients call. But the team mate who prefers to ask something
every 2 minutes instead of taking notes and asking later may see the pomodoro as a warning or a plead.
2) If you need to interrupt me every minute I think you are not very professional
There are tasks to be done in a team and others to be done individually.
Can't your team organize itself? Give the correct people the tasks they can accomplish without need of
interrupting other people's thought process? And if you need to spread the knowledge pair programming or
team sessions are better suited. Even then timeboxes can focus a team by setting tangible limits and goals.
3) Some people have better concentration abilities than others, if pomodoros help go for it else don't.
Not all people are created equal and some do not take breaks and others can't focus optimally in a
noisy environment. -
I was wondering: who needs weekly iterations and release cycles at all? Why can't we just deliver software when its ready? Why can't my customer or teamates interrupt my sunday to ask a question?
Timeboxes are usefull for various reasons. Discipline is hard, nobody said that it would be easy. Just relax and try again, ok? -
The examples of a lawyer in a court room, a surgeon in OR, or a pilot are false comparisons. What do you think the lawyer does when he's looking up other cases (precedents), or the surgeon is doing pre-op reviews of test data, or the pilot is studying a new cockpit design? I sure hope they take breaks when they're tired. Creative/study work needs to be punctuated with pauses to give the brain time to assimilate, or productivity drops.
-
I am not saying we don't need time slots or we can never take a pause. I am saying that is extremely stupid to oblige everybody to have a time slot of exactly 25 minutes. Do you think is smart to stop what I am doing while I am concentrated on it just because my pomodoro is ringing? Is this discipline?
-
Of course the length of the timebox can be adapted.
Yes, this is discipline!
In the following pomodoros, you probably will get into the rhythm and start to conclude your thoughts about the 20min...
What do you do if the weekly iteration seems short on friday? Do you postpones the iteration end to the monday? No! You just learn how to conclude unfinished work and ends the next iteration a little better. -
I am still learning the Pomodoro and I found it very useful. Splitting a big task into smaller chunks and time boxing them works quite well for me. It gives me a good understanding of how much time I spend on each tasks.
I know we all are experienced developers but at times we tend to spend hours to find the perfect solution rather than think, look at the time spent and rethink about any other possible solutions that is not so perfect but good enough. -
So, to start off with I got on and hopped off the pomodoro wagon about a year ago. Here's what I really loved about it:
It made things extremely visible and painful. I am the type of person who puts too much on my plate. Having to face myself every day and plan out what I expect to do then not make it was painful. This, to me, is Agile in the small. Fail fast. Face your failures.
Now, as to why I stopped it... The same reason. It was too painful. Is it worth going back to? For me, that depends on answering the questions at the end of the post. If I find myself not getting things done, to completion and constantly putting too much on my plate or having too much WIP, then yeah, I will pick it up again :) -
I was a developer for 15 years before I went to law school. I practiced law for 5 years then came back to IT a year ago to help manage projects for my state's court system.
I used pomodoro for about the last 6 months of my practice and most of this last year managing projects. I found the discipline useful in both circumstances and the time boxing essential for accurately billing clients, for recording project task time, and for maintaining a history of effort.
Granted I didn't have a timer going while in court but 80% of my time was in the office drafting documents, doing research, etc. Before using pomodoro I tried several other types of time management but they all were to complicated. Using a couple of spreadsheets I have found pomodoro to be easy, simple, effective. -
I keep my earphones on all day long, even without listening to music or anything else.
Most of the time no one try to interrupt me, unless it's a very important and urgent thing.
I can easily ignore non important requests pretending I didn't heard them, and I can really keep my concentration for longer periods. -
Yes, this is discipline!
So discipline should be interrupting your work, even if you are fully concentrated on it, just because a timer is ringing? Sorry but that sounds craziness (or laziness) not discipline.What do you do if the weekly iteration seems short on friday?
I just remain at work until I haven't finished what I have to do. Like any other serious professional, I think. -
I just remain at work until I haven't finished what I have to do. Like any other serious professional, I think.
Hmmmm.... now I understand our divergence. Thanks. -
I hate to reply to critiques but in this case I will answer !!!
The response is that when you learn something new your short memory is full after 20 to 30 minutes. The case with software developers is almost the same. We have to load a lot of details for the software we develop( please take a look www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000068.html). This fact with the short memory is known from almost every teacher. This is the reason that teachers and students have breaks ;-)
www.ajantonov.com -
Fusco clearly has or pretends to have a flawed and limited understanding of the PT. First of all, keeping focus for 25 minutes is one side of the coin. Detaching after 25 minutes and resting is just as important, and I would say even more important for programmers. You see, us programmers are likely to get absorbed in what we are doing, and lose track of the big picture. Are we doing this right? Don't we have other priorities? For instance, have you ever worked all day on a "tough" problem, only to see the solution the minute you walk out the office? The PT is about stopping what you are doing well before you waste a whole day in a non-productive direction.
I will not comment on the offensive, gratuitous and non-professional closing of this poorly written piece by Fusco. -
Yes Bruno. Let's just be glad we don't work for Mario.
-
The PT is about stopping what you are doing well before you waste a whole day in a non-productive direction.
You are assuming that EVERYBODY can do something well for EXACTLY 25 minutes. Starting from the 26th minute we are wasting our time and then we need to stop. ALWAYS. Are you sure?Yes Bruno. Let's just be glad we don't work for Mario.
Fine, we are all glad we don't work together.
On a different note, still anybody haven't replied to the main point of my email. Why do we always think that our job is so different from any other job in the world? Are we so special to require a whole set of specific time management technique to get our job done? Don't the civil engineer or the surgeon of my examples need the same concentration we need in their job? -
On a different note, still anybody haven't replied to the main point of my email. Why do we always think that our job is so different from any other job in the world? Are we so special to require a whole set of specific time management technique to get our job done? Don't the civil engineer or the surgeon of my examples need the same concentration we need in their job?
I think that Frank Holdsclaw went some way to answering this point when he mentioned that he found the PT to be effective as both a solicitor and IT professional. It's not that software development is so special that people are constantly looking for better ways of doing things, it's that SD is a young industry striving to do better. Maybe other more established industries feel that they have it completely right and therefore don't need to look for better techniques. Maybe it takes someone who straddles two of the industries to spot what may work well from one industry will also work well in the other. Why should we take for granted that the time management processes these industries have are the most effective? -
Why should we take for granted that the time management processes these industries have are the most effective?
Because they are there from centuries and I suppose if there were a better time management process they had already discovered it. By the way I hope you are not suggesting to use the PT to a surgeon :) -
On a different note, still anybody haven't replied to the main point of my email. Why do we always think that our job is so different from any other job in the world? Are we so special to require a whole set of specific time management technique to get our job done? Don't the civil engineer or the surgeon of my examples need the same concentration we need in their job?
Nobody says that the PT is necessary. Of course you can do well without. I think it's a good technique and I work better using it.
Nobody says that the PT is for IT people only. Quite the opposite, if you read the original paper. -
Because they are there from centuries and I suppose if there were a better time management process they had already discovered it. By the way I hope you are not suggesting to use the PT to a surgeon :)
..but these industries not necessarily work all in the same field; sometimes, different kind of jobs require different approaches; sometimes, different approaches are also useful in different companies that work in the same field.
Moreover, IMHO, the example of the surgeon is not correct: you are assuming that PT must be applied to "every" activity made by the subject of your example; IMHO, It can be applied only where it can be beneficial: when you can take advantage of organizing your time and your activities: when you are studying or applying your intellect to research or to solve a particular problem; when you are building something that require analysis and planning; when you are multitasking doing multiple complex activities that require intellectual effort; In my opinion, it could be something particularly useful in organizing mental processes, wether they are applied or not to a physical task; If you are doing a single, planned and trained activity I don't see any reason to use it.. It does not make sense to apply to a single task activity, like: driving your car, flying your airplane, exercising your muscle in the gym etc..
Sticking to the "25" minutes timespan as if it is the only source of problems in this technique is a sign of lack of creativity; The technique is, well, a technique; a general blueprint that everyone intending to use it MUST take as a guideline and bend it and shape it to accomodate his own specificity; It seems to me, by your critiques, that you're interpreting the technique too rigidly, without applying that common sense that should be used when translating a theoretical practice (that must be wide enough for its intended audience) to your own personal plane of existence;
In the end, some people may find it beneficial, other can find it not very helpful; In every case I think it has nothing to do with how "professional" you are.
In the IT world in which I've been living and working for the last 15 years, being late on friday and making late at work to finish my job was not seen as "being professional".. It was perceived as a symptom of bad organization and bad time management ;)
Just my 2 cents on the argument. -
It seems to me, by your critiques, that you're interpreting the technique too rigidly, without applying that common sense that should be used when translating a theoretical practice (that must be wide enough for its intended audience) to your own personal plane of existence.
This is exactly the point. I am not interpreting the technique too rigidly. I don't like it because is too rigid indeed. A timer is something rigid by definition. Or maybe do you have a fuzzy timer? And if you don't use a timer, well, you are not applying the PT at all. -
I understand your issue.
Sure, if you have tried the technique and found it unusable for you, I totally agree with you; The point here is: use it if it fits you.
A timer is of course a rigid concept; but you were arguing on the exact 25 minute timeframe.. you know (or you are supposed to know) your brain mechanisms well enough to adjust that value to something that can better fit your rhythm; Nature seems to suggest that every living creature inner functioning is heavily based on circadian cycles: a good example is, for instance, sleep phases (roughly based on multiple cycles - nearly three - of 30 minutes each);
Why can't we apply this concept to learning and thinking processes ? I find it intriguing and thus I'm open to try and further investigate on the matter ;) -
Anton
I've been helping people learn financial maths ( not an easy subject some might say ) for a few years. In the early days I was limited by the belief that people could only concentrate or learn for 20 or so minutes.
I realised that people are quite happy to sit for several hours being entertained by a comedian and still want more at the end.
I have changed my style. I try to be more entertaining and interactive. ( Many Agile conference sessions are like this ). I model my delivery on Eddie Izzard and Al Murray.
The result is that the groups/individuals I work with can do hard maths for an hour easily without a break. On occasion we have gone for a couple of hours without a break. Normally we break because someone has to go to another meeting.... not because people can't cope with any more learning.
My conclusion is that anyone can learn for as long as necessary. Often people will enter a state of flow for hours on end. People do struggle with maintaining concentration if the material or delivery is not entertaining and engaging.
In summary. Do not allow yourself to be limited by the idea that learning has to be limited to 20/30 minute bites. -
Actually the idea that people can concentrate or learn for 20 to 30 minutes is not mine. There is pshycology reaseraches on this topic. I didn't mention the research just because I can't find a good web link.
Anton Jorov Antonov
www.ajantonov.con -
Anton
I agree that there is research on this subject. I am suggesting it is wrong. I work with people who stay sharp and focused for an hour or more.... on a not that interesting topic.
If you make the delivery of the material interesting, people can stay focused for longer.
Chris -
Anton
I agree that there is research on this subject. I am suggesting it is wrong. I work with people who stay sharp and focused for an hour or more.... on a not that interesting topic.
If you make the delivery of the material interesting, people can stay focused for longer.
Chris -
Myself, I have two potential arguments against pomodoro:
1. It's local optimization. I thought the goal was to increase team productivity. As Mario mentioned, if I force a team mate to wait, my own personal productivity may be increased but the team's productivity may suffer. Local optimization is supposed to be bad, no?
2. For agile leaders, I thought we were supposed to be the interruption soakers. I'm supposed to throw myself in front of the interruption to protect the team. If the team accomplishes its goals for the day/sprint then I've at least accomplished something. Again, beware the local optimization.
That's not to say that you can't use personal organization tools. I have my own personal kanban. To each her own.
Hi Bruce,
I've used pomodoro working in a team environment and wanted to share how we managed interruptions.
We worked in pairs and allowed interruptions for up to 30 seconds. If the interruption went over that time it was either important enough to make us void the pomodoro or deferred until after our pomodoro finished. We found this still helped us to maintain concentration but made the frequency and size (duration) of interruptions visible.
We made our timers visible so we could see when a pair was due for a break - that meant the interrupter also had the option of waiting an average of 7 or so minutes until the current pomodoro was up.
The main effect this had was making us conscious of the cost of interruption. Like most costs, it is necessary to wear it to some degree but it is very handy to at least be able to know what you're paying.
The key thing is that we weren't discouraged from seeking help but we were encouraged to be more mindful of the concentration of others. My feeling is that the overall effect was to increase team productivity. It wasn't a local optimisation at the cost of the overall process but something that helped us become more efficient on the whole.
Brent. -
There is actually a book about implementing the Pomodoro Technique in the law industry, so I'm pretty sure there are lawyers out there practicing the technique.
Secondly, the technique does not need to fit all possible professions and working environments to be good for you. It only needs to fit your profession and your working environment. And as a programmer I can say that the Pomodoro Technique has worked pretty well for me over last couple of weeks. At first I got so excited about it I used the technique to write an article about it:
jan.tomka.name/blog/pomodoro-technique-first-we....
As a life long procrastinator, when I was starting with the technique I knew already that it doesn't matter much how good the technique is if you don't use it. I had two options: either I could have not used the best technique or I could have used a good enough one. And even if I didn't get to like the Pomodoro Technique, I could still spend the time looking for a better one using it. And keeping myself just a bit more productive. -
Yes, perhaps it is easy to argue that the Pomodoro technique is not necessary to work effectively, but how about this: until reading about the technique, I had not really considered that a "20 to 25 minute interval" was a useful length of time to achieve anything, especially for something like a hobby or volunteer / community project.
But as a contributor to an Apache incubator project, I find that just such a "short" interval is actually enough to make some progress, especially writing documentation!
So instead of looking at whether the full technique is good or bad, I have just found one aspect that appeals to me, and use that: by spending just 20 minutes a day (in the morning or evening) on such tasks, then by the weekend, or month-end, I have made a significant contribution. A contribution that I otherwise "might not have found the time for!"
Do I require the Pomodoro technique to do this? Perhaps not. Did the discussion about the technique help? Sure!
32 comments
Watch Thread Reply