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Are We There Yet?
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| by Rich Hickey Follow 51 Followers on Nov 12, 2009 |
01:10:04

Summary
In his keynote at JVM Languages Summit 2009, Rich Hickey advocated for the reexamination of basic principles like state, identity, value, time, types, genericity, complexity, as they are used by OOP today, to be able to create the new constructs and languages to deal with the massive parallelism and concurrency of the future.

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Bio

Rich Hickey, the author of Clojure, is an independent software designer, consultant and application architect with over 20 years of experience in all facets of software development.

The 2009 JVM Language Summit is an open technical collaboration among language designers, compiler writers, tool builders, runtime engineers, and VM architects. The talks inform the audience, in detail, about the state of the art of language design and implementation on the JVM, and the present and future capabilities of the JVM itself.

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Community comments

Are We There Yet? by Justin Forder

Great talk! This is really, really important stuff.
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Re: Are We There Yet? by Derek Christman

Thanks Rich for voicing so clearly what has to be eating so many developers. Great food for thought, and hopefully change!
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Re: Are We There Yet? by Tony Butterfield

Great talk. I think you pinpoint the limitations of OO very well and provide some rich insights into how they can be addressed. To me real benefits of this approach is the avoidance of concurrency complexity and the ability to assert confidence on the correctness of operation.

(Your reference to CAS had me confused for a while I was thinking "computer algebra system" rather than "compare and swap")
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Excellent talk by Thomas Hildebrandt

A very good talk!

I support the message that we should start looking at immutable data, i.e. value-oriented programming - and that the oo of today is out of sync with the kind of hardware and it systems we want to implement. However, there is still some way to go from the idea of using value-oriented programming to the design of an alternative programming paradigm that can replace (or improve) oo...

If someone are interested in seeing an (arguable more esoteric) use of value-oriented persistent tree data structure (XML) I wrote a paper a while ago on using a peer-to-peer value-oriented XML store as a distributed programming model. Of course it does not need to be distributed or peer-to-peer, the key point is to coordinate processes by their (atomic) updates (i.e. creation of new trees) to the XML store.

The paper (Distributed Reactive XML - an XML-centric coordination middleware ) can be found here www1.itu.dk/sw31433.asp. I would love to transfer this idea to multi-core processors..
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Immutable value and OO by 王 兵兵

I don't understand. Immutable value is a great idea, but I think it does not contrast with OO.
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Re: Immutable value and OO by Kai Sellgren

You are right. It does not contrast with OO. In fact, one can build an object-oriented Haskell that is still functional and uses immutable values.
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Slides not working by Nicholas Vaidyanathan

It looks like the slides that accompany the talk are broken. Could you update with the content from wiki.jvmlangsummit.com/images/a/ab/HickeyJVMSum... and re-sync?
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"Head First Java" by Bert Bates and Kathy Sierra by Paul Topping

Mentioned in the talk around 29m: "Head First Java" by Bert Bates and Kathy Sierra
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Link to a transcript by Andy Fingerhut

A transcript of this talk is available here: github.com/matthiasn/talk-transcripts/blob/mast...
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