Bruce Eckel: Use Flex as the UI for Java Applications

Flex is no longer expensive

IMHO, the necessity for "rich" UIs is vastly overrated. A well-designed HTML UI that uses Javascript/Ajax only as an additional option (i.e., degrades gracefully) is an excellent solution for the 80% use-case.

Hi Corby,

Here are the exact pricing details for the whole Flex product line:
www.adobe.com/products/flex/productinfo/buy/

Many companies have been very successful with Flex using only the free Flex SDK, which is free and doesn't have any hidden runtime fees. Free as in free. :)

Hope that helps.

-James

Seriously, did everyone get the memo but Eckel that locking yourself into proprietary solutions when FOSS/open standards solutions exist is a bad plan? I am no open source bigot -- I buy more software tools than anyone I know but I just don't get the point of using Flex. I think Eckel has become obsessed with the "ease" of everything to the point of exclusion.

Just because something is easier to do does not instantly make it better.

Ha, so Eckel has worn out Python as a subject so a new programming model is needed?

Haha. Actually Bruce and I recently recorded a screencast about using Python & Flex together:
www.jamesward.org/wordpress/2007/01/10/bruce-ec...

MS Sparkle? I hear it will be better than Flash.

Or VRML. It's had time to mature, and I hear there's a netscape plugin.

Please, keep me away from web sites this person develops. HTML is a great thing, no matter how bad it gets.

How about Laszlo(www.openlaszlo.org), an open source platform for RIA. I have developed an application with Laszlo and it was quite impressive.

Raghu

There are open source alternatives to Flex that also use the "free, if proprietary" Flash plugin... Like OpenLaszlo. The main plus of "Flex" is the use of a commonly available, easily installed VM; i.e., Flash. If you're not willing to use proprietary development environments like Flex, you might be more interested in OS solutions like Laszlo (which have been around about as long as Flex). Check out www.openlaszlo.org.

I have personally evaluated Flex 2 SDK, Flex 2 Builder(Flex eclipse pluggin) and Flex chart
for an internal project.

I was very impressed by the quality of the UI libraries,the extensive documentation (API, Reference manual,examples),a very active mailing list (too active :-) )
an openness to AJAX/Javascript through a AJAX/FLEX-FLASH Bridge that for example Google is using
for their finance chart

After starting using Flex SDK is quite tough to go back to PROTOTYPE, SCRIPTACULOUS ,DWR, GWT, DOJO world.(Great js libraries or toolkits by the way)

I believe that people should download the SDK with the trial version of the eclipse pluggin and test by themself that web development can be painless using tools such as a powerful debugger

Regards

Claude Hussenet

One of the things that I believe this discussion misses (at least for some apps) is that a thick client can do more than just the GUI. For example, it can do client-side business processing (saving the results to the server at a later point) and off-line processing (in some circumstances).

A big benefit from using the same programming langauge on the client as one uses on the server is that you can share various business libraries (or parts thereof) across the server and the client. This way we don't have the duplicate business logic like we have had in the past or with Flex on the client and Java on the server.

Of course, some apps don't need this sort of client-side processing but some could benefit a lot from it.

Cheers,
Ashley.

--
Ashley Aitken
Perth, Western Australia
mrhatken at mac dot com

I definitely encourage you all to have a look at OpenLaszlo, especially the next version soon to be released, OL4, which has what no other RIA platform offers: multi-runtime support. In other words, you create all your UI with one common language (LZX) and it can be deployed with Flash (Flash 9 support is on its way) OR AJAX... or anything you want.
And their documentation is great, honnestly they lack a few small things compared to Flex, but hey, it's Open!

However from my understanding from looking at the flex site if you are ISV then you have to pay licensing fees for using flex even if it is just the SDK without Data Services. So hypothetically if I am Application Service Provider (ASP) making available a Basecamp (37 Signals) type application that uses flex then I need to pay licensing fees. Is that correct? Below is the quote from the flex page...

For ISVs that develop software applications for sale that are built on or embed Flex, an Adobe ISV support plan and/or OEM license and redistribution agreement is required. Flexible licensing and value pricing options are available for Flex OEMs and ISVs.

There are very few instances where someone needs to redistribute the Flex SDK. Anything you build with the SDK is not under any license restrictions. Just like the stuff you create with the JDK.

Well that's good news. Thanks for the info.

IMHO, the necessity for "rich" UIs is vastly overrated. A well-designed HTML UI that uses Javascript/Ajax only as an additional option (i.e., degrades gracefully) is an excellent solution for the 80% use-case.