Is Google Wave Going to Have an Impact on RIA/Silverlight?

Wave itself, I think, may be competing with certain other technologies, but I think really its about Google trying to force progress on the web. Google is trying to bring something new into the world of internet communication. Its incredibly ambitious. But Wave the protocol aside, look at what its doing with technology. Its pushing html5 technology, fast javascript, but also Gears. From everything I've seen, this is a stake in the ground saying, "We aren't going to work with inferior technology. Let's push the web forward." If IE doesn't get into gear with a faster javascript engine and html5 support, they will outright be seen as legacy tech. Unlike maps and mail, IE doesn't get a free pass here. I hope it works.

Trying to see Wave as competitor to Silverlight or whatever else does not really make sense, since Wave is the architecture (or infrastructure), while Silverlight is a technology (or application), if I understand correctly.

Also, I think this whole HTML5 story used when introducing and then explaining Wave, is not really relevant to the Wave Client, at least it is not worth amount of references used.

To my knowledge, neither "geolocation", nor "web workers" are part of the HTML5 specification.

Sergey/

What are we talking about here?

Wave as an app is cool, or rather it will be. As a plattform for communications, I believe that given Google's history, they'll be able to meet expectations.

But as a development platform? We don't even know wheter Google is going to make Wave one.

HTML5 is going to be one, but looking at what it is today, I don't see how HTML5 is going to be such a change plattform-wise. Including video and audio in the standard is cool, and the canvas will probably remove a few needs for Flash/Silverlight too. Google Gears might be no longer needed (after they extend HTML5 again, implement it in every browser, wait for every user to install it...)

As an app developer, I'd probably be most excited about history management and cross-doc-messaging. Overdue, but are those really game changers?

Developing new apps using HTML will probably still be a PITA. How is HTML5 changing this? It's still HTML, HTTP and JavaScript.

Rasmussen said: "we’ve spent two and a half years on the first one". Using Google's ressources. And still it crashes in the demo. Why's that? My guess is: Because the plattform sucks.

Wave is three things: tool, platform and protocol. Please see: www.infoq.com/news/2009/06/wave
HTML 5 plays a major role in Wave, the tool.
geolocation and web workers are "web API proposals from W3C and WHATWG" as I mentioned.

Wave is going to be opened and is promised to be a development platform. Everybody will be able to create a Wave server, to extend the platform, to add gadgets and robots. They promise to open source it, and I want to believe them. There is no reason to not do so.
HTML 5 will certainly have an impact on RIA, but it is hard to appreciate how big it will be and how long it will take to have that impact. Many companies would prefer a standardized HTML solution for rich web applications rather than various proprietary platforms. It's looks natural. But, of course, Flash and Silverlight will continue.

As someone on another blog thread said, comparing Silverlight vs Wave is like comparing Octomom vs Wave.

And it's my understanding that Wave can't even run on straight HTML 5 (the drag and drop doesn't work, so you actually need Google Gears to make it work). Besides it'll be years before you'll be able to rely on HTML 5.

As usual, Google talks and a lot of people get suckered into their hype.

Wave and Silverlight do not compare with each other directly. Wave's effect on Silverlight is indirect. HTML will enter in the RIA space with HTML 5, taking a share from Flash and Silverlight. Google's heavy support for HTML 5 will contribute to that. There will be certainly companies rallying with Google around Wave and consequentely supporting HTML 5, plus companies interested in working in HTML.

Wave needs Gears just for drag and drop, but it won't need it if DnD makes its way into HTML 5 as proposed. www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/mult...

Hype is part of life. It has always been and will be. There was huge hype around Microsoft in the past. Now is Google. Tomorrow, who knows?

Wave and Silverlight do not compare with each other directly. Wave's effect on Silverlight is indirect. HTML will enter in the RIA space with HTML 5, taking a share from Flash and Silverlight.

Google's heavy support for HTML 5 will contribute to that. There will be certainly companies rallying with Google around Wave and consequentely supporting HTML 5, plus companies interested in working in HTML.

Wave needs Gears just for drag and drop, but it won't need it if DnD makes its way into HTML 5 as proposed.

I think the bottom line is that Flash, Silverlight will always be way ahead of HTML technology, and that there are tangible benefits for organizations like Adobe and Microsoft, and for developers when they don't have to rely on the idiosyncracies of various browsers (which could get worse if Safari for Windows, and Google Chrome make inroads).

I was unclear: of course Wave is going to reach out to developers as a communications plattform. But it's just Wave-based applications, for doing Wave-like stuff, integration, add-ons etc. This is something completely different from a general-purpose plattform for any RIA, like Silverligt, Flex, and AJAX (with or without HTML5).

So how does Wave affect Flex and SL? By showcasing what's possible with AJAX and HTML5? What's really HTML5-specific about that? All you need is a modern browser with a fast JavaScript engine.

Of course Google can do magic with AJAX, they can invest any amount of money. Microsoft did Outlook Web Access in the late 90s (yes - they invented AJAX, not Google), but it was not until the barrier for creating similar apps lowered significantly before the rest of the industry took notice.

This time, with all the hype, people are going to notice, and Internet companies will continue to use AJAX. But for custom apps, enterprises are going to look for cost effectiveness.

You want to standardize? How about standardizing on one language and framework on the server (.NET) and the browser (Silverlight)?

HTML5 threatens Flash (not so much Flex) and SL through audio, video and canvas integration. I think that's about it. There's just more to Flex and SL.

Hi Stefan,
I think we are talking the same language with small variations.

I was unclear: of course Wave is going to reach out to developers as a communications plattform. But it's just Wave-based applications, for doing Wave-like stuff, integration, add-ons etc. This is something completely different from a general-purpose plattform for any RIA, like Silverligt, Flex, and AJAX (with or without HTML5).

So what's the big new feature in HTML5 that Wave needs? All I've seen is stuff that's possible already, and stuff that still needs Google Gears.

I mentioned in my article some of the HTML 5 features that Wave uses: drawing in "canvas", and video in "video". Could those be done without HTML 5? Sure. But Google chose to do Wave without Flash or Silverlight. That's the whole point.

You didn't mention that those are used in Wave, and I don't remember them from the video. They're not mentioned in your architecture link either. What's the canvas used for? Looks like plain HTML+CSS to me.

During the demo they play a chess game inside a Wave. I believe that's done using HTML 5's canvas. Besides, Gundotra showed an analytics 2D tool and a 3D demo with sea waves, torches, etc. Those are Javascript, generated with GWT, and HTML 5. Some demos: htmlfive.appspot.com/.

I will update the article with a mention that HTML 5 features were either present in Wave or demoed separately as stand alone web pages which could easily be included in Waves.

Now thats a gadget, not wave itself, and then rendering a chessboard doesn't quite require a canvas - a table will do.
So I assume the answer to my question - "what's the big new feature in HTML5 that Wave needs?" - is: none?

Wave Gadgets are part of Wave, like robots, and they are not rendered with Flash/Silverlight.

A chess board can be done in many ways, but they chose HTML 5. Wave is just at its beginning. But the way it looks, many things can be done inside Waves: video editing/playing, collaborative drawing, video chats, collaborative document editing including drawings. So, yes, canvas, video, geolocation, web workers are "big new features" used or to be used by Wave.

I'll let you have collaborative drawing, whatever that's good for. You're really reaching to justify a dependency on HTML 5, but it's possible.
But video editing/chatting? HTML 5 only plays back.